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AminusAminus 09 Jun 2015 20:27
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » The Bamorians

Phoebus,

The stats you built using the race book is great. I really appreciate you putting that together. I'm getting back into the world development now that my year as SCASFAA President is winding down.

So, I think we could drop a couple minor abilities. Racial skills perhaps and scent. The scent was a carryover and not really necessary.
Female Bamorians might not be size Large, now that I think about it. That may or may not impact the totals. Just a thought.

Thank you for working on that!
Ken

by AminusAminus, 09 Jun 2015 20:27

Let me address one of your concerns: any race can be a Sorcerer. If a player wanted to play ten human PCs in a row, all of whom were Sorcerers, he could do so. There is literally no mechanic in Pathfinder that puts a cap or quota on this sort of thing.

What I'm trying to determine has to do with background flavor.

That is, it's stated plainly in the rules that the reason why someone became a Sorcerer - regardless of their race - is because of their background. Humans don't have an innate affinity for magic; those who become Sorcerers are, to cite the Pathfinder flavor text, "Scions of innately magical bloodlines, the chosen of deities, the spawn of monsters, pawns of fate and destiny, or simply flukes of fickle magic …"

The class write up (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/sorcerer.html#sorcerer) goes on to list a number of bloodlines that Sorcerers draw their powers from.

Now, to clarify (and perhaps correct) my position a bit, I'm not so much arguing that Gelvani are naturally better at magic than other races. The fact of the matter is that none of them get more than a +2 bonus to Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma, which means that any human or half-elf (both of whom get to choose a single attribute to pop their +2 bonus to) can be just as good a Bard, Cleric, Paladin, Sorcerer, Wizard, etc., as them.

What I'm getting at… and this is just an idea that I'm pitching… is that the Gelvani background/mythology means that they basically have the "Celestial Bloodline" (one of the basic options for Sorcerers) by default. If they never choose to pursue magical training, then nothing comes of it: no spell-like abilities, no magical powers, etc. If they do, however, and they have the right resources, any one of them could become a Bard or a Sorcerer. By contrast, a Sorcerer among humans is more like a "mutant" from your favorite comic books: they have some sort of predisposition to magic that is not "natural" to humans. They got it from a bloodline that is not universal to the Duneimen of Naeja.

What the Grey-Gelvani did, in my humble opinion, was realize that the innate sorcerous powers of their people were too limited. They developed the intellectual, academic approach to arcane magic: the Wizard. Now, are Grey-Gelvani inherently better Wizards? Again, the game mechanics say no. Are they in a better position to produce better Wizards? Well, yeah. They are a magocracy whose power rests in the hands of super-powerful Wizards. Their society values arcane study and power. Contrast that with the rest of the world, which is often distrustful or outright hostile to Wizards. Yes, a Grey-Gelvani has better odds at becoming the latest magical threat to the world, but it's not because his DNA says so.

Bottom line, the reason why I brought this up was that I needed a logical baseline for Gelvani class design. Que-Gelvani are the "mainstream race" for their people. They are the "face" of the Gelvani. In a Naeja-based "Core Rulebook" (or whatever), Que-Gelvani would be the "elf" entry. The rest would be in a supplement (traditionally).

So, with all that having been said… Que-Gelvani have a divine bloodline by default (they are the Sixth Blood descended from Gelthena and Fey-Kalin). They have a bonus to their Charisma attribute. With the obvious caveat that they could very well study wizardry if they so chose aside, is it a safe bet to say that the majority of Que-Gelvani arcane efforts are concentrated in the Bard and Sorcerer areas of expertise?

Murphy's Irish Stout, my friend. Local grocery has started carrying it. Geez. I seemed to have gone off last night, lol… Rambling, but perfect spelling as usual. :)

As for a normal response, you know how I feel on the Classes. I'm not a fan of races and classes tailor-made for each other, especially when it comes to something as powerful and world-changing as magic.

From an outside-in perspective, it makes sense that the Gelvani/Elves have a greater aptitude for magic for one simple reason – they are more accepting of it than most of the other races. From the inside-out, there are things like Gelthena and Zarthandyr's connection to magic, etc.

But when it comes to this discussion, my biggest concern is the notion of balance, and what a new player writing up his first character thinks when he is presented with character creation.

It's no secret that I'm not a fan of the Sorcerer class, and one reason is that it seems to be nothing more than a hackneyed way to give non-wizards all kinds of spells via multiclass without having to actually do the work of playing a wizard.

Having said that, if Sorcerers do exist, they need to make sense, and the 3E-style logic of "maybe one of your ancestors had dragon blood or something; go nuts!" really came across as pathetic IMHO – Though I'm sure Pathfinder does a better job.

I think any Elf or Human PC should be able to be a Sorcerer; I'm not a fan of "super-magical bloodlines" per se within a race, a la "he's one of the few humans who can do it", unless that is a core aspect to the world in general, a la Birthright.

IMHO, if you've run a game world for 10+ years, and you look back on 50+ Player Characters and major NPC's, and it seems that most of the fighters seem to resemble one archetype, all the sorcerers come from the same land, and no Grey Gelvani non-wizard has ever been played, you have a broken class/race system.

That doesn't mean that Dwarves should ever be popping off Magic Missiles, but if all the characters end up looking the same (like a two-longsword wielding Hasted Elf Fighter-Mage………), then maybe some changes are in order… :)

Bottom line? Sorcerers IMHO should be mystical, not mechanical.

And every single thing MrBtongue says here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHrTTgmB_3w&list=UUI3GAJaOTL1BoipG41OmfyA

I mean, you could always respond to the questions in the spirit they were offered… ;)

The following conversation involves a significant amount of inebriation and playful digging up of concepts previously discussed for the sole purpose of humor. It is not intended as actual discussion material, as I care far more for bringing smiles into my friends' lives far more than I do logic……..


I wanted to make sure I had my ducks lined up properly before I got started with some projects.

The ducks are indeed lined up perfectly in my sights. I shall now invite said ducks to the bloodbath that shall be overwhelming. I shall partake not in the meaningless mundane magics of one Tiercellus, Gelvani power of War - for his arcane prowess is utterly meaningless in the face of the Grey Elf Wizard Terris I played two times on Naeja…for he was…..a Grey-Gelvani! The only true kind of wizard that shall ever be henceforth known upon the ranks of Player Characters forevermore!

Most races aren't "innately magical".

Straight Up! Sit down, Aasimon! Have a seat, Eladrins! For you are nothing compared to the awe-inspiring majesty of the sorcerous might of the Grey-Gelvani! Even other pointy-eared dabblers cower in the majesty of the "Omniscience" spell that is commonly known to all Grey-Gelvani children upon conception!!!

That is, baseline Pathfinder humans can become, for example, sorcerers because they belong to a certain Bloodline (as shown in the Sorcerer class).

I wouldn't know; I don't believe in FASCISM, or any belief that one race is superior to others when it comes to the realms of mental acumen and magical power. But that's just me… :)

It's "understood" that the vast majority of humans who become spellcasters would be wizards: they would follow an academic, intellectual discipline of arcane studies. They would study magic, they wouldn't be born with that innate connection to magic.

Nope. Foolish primitive humans! Doomed forever to be crappy wizards without a +2 to Intelligence, or to ever be able to sniff the Boots+10 of Arch-Wizardry that all Grey-Gelvani are issued at birth because of their inherent racial superiority to all other forms of life in all things magical!!!

The way I understand it, the Gelvani of the Sixth Blood have that innate connection.

They do indeed. Not because they deserve it, mind you, but because they are biologically technically close enough to the almighty Grey-Gelvani to have innate connections to magic – though naturally nothing on the order of the Grey-Gelvani's connection to the multiverse and it's powers (not mysteries – powers – because nothing is a mystery to the mighty Grey Gelvani. Anything that is quickly becomes instantly known because of their immense power of Divination. Why Divination? Because it's a school of magic, of course! Thus, they shouldn't even need to learn spells – they are surely biologically born with the knowledge of all things magical!

No, they don't have spell-like abilities.

Who needs spell-like abilities if you literally have access to the secrets of all the multiverse thanks to the fact you were born with the midichlorians I mean parentage of Grey Elven Wizards? Not that they'd need to teach their kids anything; they're already better than High Elf Wizards could ever be at anything magical at birth!!!

If they wish to, however, and if they have access to the right training, etc., they can become Bards, Sorcerers, etc.

Why bother? Let the Bard Elves and Fighter Elves just do their thing! That has no bearing on the most magical race that has ever contemplated existence!!!

It's part and parcel of their heritage, and most of their Sorcerers probably have the Divine (they are the Sixth Blood, after all) or Fey Bloodlines by default.

Their superior Aryan Grey Gelvani heritage! Seig Heil Herr Zarthandyr!!!

Grey-Gelvani (side note, I still advocate that we evolve this name, much like Sylvana-Gelvani became Seyl-Gelvani),

I agree 100% - there is no need for confusion to anyone who might want to ever play a Wizard character. We must call them the Wizard-Elves. No, scratch that – just call them the Wizards of Naeja; for there is no reason why anyone would ever play a non-Aryan (ahhh, sorry, I mean) non-Wizard-Elf Wizard on Naeja! You think that's just a +2 to Intelligence? Pfft! That's the only way you can ever get the best kind of magic in the world. And the massive library that happens to have every spell in existence that they all get for free…

For so majestic are the Wizard Elves that they have created Prozacius to give to all non-Grey Gelvani Wizards who dare set foot upon Naeja in order to help with the depression of not having been born a member of zee master race!!!

on the other hand, being the foremost magical race,

Sit down, Aasimon! You too, Eladrin! The foremost magical race is here! For they exist in a realm of comprehension of existence far superior to yours! You are nothing compared to the awe-inspiring intellect of the sub-race that gets a PLUS TWO TO INTELLIGENCE!

realized that - innate tied to magic aside - the academic path of Shamora (that is, wizardry) afforded greater flexibility, greater breadth of power, etc.

Greater. Stronger. Faster. Zee Master Race. For Life is Life and all others are nothing. Fore even Arthan himself weeps every time a 2nd Level Wizard-Elf casts Detect Magic - knowing that forever he shall never wield a power so great…

This, in turn, informed why they were so pissed off that the Que-Gelvani taught Shamora to humans.

Twice. They taught them Twice. I have two deities upon Naeja, and one of them knows where the Wheel of Time is. They went back and taught them twice - JUST TO PISS THEM OFF.

Want to make it three? Done. >:-)

Ironically, the advanced path that the Grey-Gelvani developed - proper wizardry -

Hello? Who else could learn "proper" Wizardry? The Bard-Elves? The Druid-Elves? ROFL! The Figher-Elves? MooHa!!! All Are Fools without Intelligence scores of 18, which all Wizard-Elf Player Characters are born with - minimum!

was more accessible than the innate tie to magic, which the Que-Gelvani couldn't "teach".

How can a white man teach another white man Kung-Fu? For it is a discipline that only Asians can master! Foolish Bard-Elves! You can teach nothing but pointless melodies! Melodies that don't even Haste anyone!!!

Is this an accurate depiction of Gelvani affinity for magic?

Nothing could be more accurate when it comes to the Gelvani! The only question is where the Priest-Elves, Paladin-Elves, and Thief-Elves are, since all things must be mechanically-tailored to a biologically-perfect specimen for a Player Character class!

For certainly the Drey-Gelvani (obviously the Fighter-Elves) are the only ones who possess the secrets of Weapon Mastery! Even the mighty Kalthanan cannot compare to their mastery of weapon skill, because he was born a Bard-Elf!!!

Fortunately for Kalthanan, his Bard-Elf heritage enables him to sing songs of greatest lament at his inability to ever wield the amazing power of the Wizard-Elves and the prowess of the biologically-superior Fighter-Elves!


Insomnia + Alcohol + What just happened. I hope you enjoyed it. :)

I wanted to make sure I had my ducks lined up properly before I got started with some projects.

Most races aren't "innately magical". That is, baseline Pathfinder humans can become, for example, sorcerers because they belong to a certain Bloodline (as shown in the Sorcerer class). It's "understood" that the vast majority of humans who become spellcasters would be wizards: they would follow an academic, intellectual discipline of arcane studies. They would study magic, they wouldn't be born with that innate connection to magic.

The way I understand it, the Gelvani of the Sixth Blood have that innate connection. No, they don't have spell-like abilities. If they wish to, however, and if they have access to the right training, etc., they can become Bards, Sorcerers, etc. It's part and parcel of their heritage, and most of their Sorcerers probably have the Divine (they are the Sixth Blood, after all) or Fey Bloodlines by default. Grey-Gelvani (side note, I still advocate that we evolve this name, much like Sylvana-Gelvani became Seyl-Gelvani), on the other hand, being the foremost magical race, realized that - innate tied to magic aside - the academic path of Shamora (that is, wizardry) afforded greater flexibility, greater breadth of power, etc. This, in turn, informed why they were so pissed off that the Que-Gelvani taught Shamora to humans. Ironically, the advanced path that the Grey-Gelvani developed - proper wizardry - was more accessible than the innate tie to magic, which the Que-Gelvani couldn't "teach".

Is this an accurate depiction of Gelvani affinity for magic?

v4
AminusAminus 19 Apr 2014 05:54
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Venturer

There are those who specialize in particular skills and talents and use those to meet the challenges of adventuring, then there is the Venturer. the Venturer prepares for all possible dangers and outcomes. A thrill seeker by nature, the Venturer prepares himself for the unexpected and expects to be surprised. As such, the Venturer is a literal jack-of-all-trades. The Venturer has to be stealthy, cunning, crafty, skillful, perceptive, armed for danger, ready for combat, knowledgeable in the arcane arts, able to pull tricks out of his sleeve, a worldly traveler, a master of languages and cultures, aware of religious fop-as and unbiased in faith. As such the Venturer demonstrates a little bit of talent from all other classes, an expert in all trades and master of none.

Descriptors:
Explorer, Opportunist, Pioneer, Globetrotter, Voyager, Wanderer, Fortune-Hunter, World Traveler

Role:

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Handle Animal (Cha), Knowledge (All), Linguistics, Perception, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Stealth, Swim, Survival and Use Magic Device.
Skill Ranks per Level: 8+Int modifier.

Table: Venturer (and Spells Per Day)

Level BAB Fort. Ref. Will. Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st +1 +2 +2 +2 Obscure Knowledge, Cantrips 0
2nd +2 +3 +3 +3 Venturer's Talent 1
3rd +3 +3 +3 +3 Lore Master, Cautious Explorer 1
4th +4 +4 +4 +4 Venturer's Talent 1 0
5th +5 +4 +4 +4 1 1
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +5 Venturer's Talent 2 1
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +5 Intuitive Explorer 2 1 0
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +6 Venturer's Talent 2 1 1
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +6 Lore Master x2 2 2 1
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +7 Venturer's Talent 3 2 1 0
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +7 Experienced Explorer 3 2 1 1
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +8 Venturer's Talent 3 2 2 1
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +8 3 3 2 1 0
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +9 Venturer's Talent 4 3 2 1 1
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +9 Expert Explorer, Lore Master x3 4 3 2 2 1
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +10 Venturer's Talent 4 3 3 2 1
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +10 4 4 3 2 1
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +11 Venturer's Talent 5 4 3 2 2
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +11 Arcane Explorer 5 4 3 3 2
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +12 Grand Venturer 5 4 4 3 3

Class Features:
All of the following are class features for the Venturer.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Venturer is proficient with all simple, martial and exotic weapons and with light armor and light shields.
A Venturer can cast arcane spells while wearing light armor or a light shield without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a Venturer wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or large shields incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (see Arcane Spells and Armor). A multiclass Venturer still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Cantrips: Venturers can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: "Venturer Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again. A Venturer begins knowing only four cantrips; two specific cantrips ( read magic), Detect Magic, and two other cantrips of his choosing. He can learn new cantrips as he encounters them. See "Learn Spells" for details.

Arcane Spell Casting: A Venturer can casts arcane spells, but has no spell list. Instead the Venturer picks up spells as he explores and adventures. The Venturer can learn spells he discovers on scrolls or in spell books. A Venturer must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a Venturer must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Venturer's spell is 10 + the spell level + the Venturer's Intelligence modifier. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Venturer Spells per day. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score.

Learn Spells:
The Venturer's selection of spells is whatever he can get his hands onto and understand. A Venturer can learn spells from spellbooks and scrolls. He must find spells or convince other spell casters to teach him spells. A Venturer does not gain more new spells as he goes up in levels.
To learn a spell the Venturer must study the spell for 1 day per spell level or, if being trained, for 1 hour per spell level. The Venturer must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. Then the Venturer must make an Intelligence Check DC 10 + Spell Level, to determine if he learns the spell. If he fails he may not attempt to learn this spell from this spell book again until he gains another level. If he succeeds he transcribes the book into his own spell book and may prepare it thereafter. Attempting to learn a spell from a scroll causes the scroll to be consumed, and as such failure means the scroll cannot be learned from again. With great difficulty a Venturer may even be able to learn spells from other arcane sources (but not divine), such as bardic music and alchemist's formulae. The base difficulty for learning from these sources is much higher: bardic music (DC 14), alchemists formulae (DC 17). When a spell is learned from these sources it is always at the spell level that the spell would be for a wizard.

Spellbooks: A Venturer must study his spellbook each day to prepare his spells. He cannot prepare any spell not recorded in his spellbook, except for read magic, which all Venturers can prepare from memory.

A Venturer begins play with a spellbook containing 4 0-level spells (two of which must be Read Magic and Detect Magic). Thereafter he does not automatically add any spells to his spell book. Instead he must attain these spells through discovery and study. The Venturer cannot create new spells. A Venturer can add spells found in other Venturer's or Wizards' spellbooks to his own (see Learn Spells). To do so he must learn the spell, which is not automatic.

Obscure Knowledge (Ex): A Venturer adds half his class level (minimum 1) on all Knowledge skill checks and may make all Knowledge skill checks untrained. When there isn't an appropriate knowledge skill the Venturer may make an Intelligence Check + 1/2 his level, to see if he knows something about any topic.

Lore Master (Ex): At 3rd level, the Venturer becomes a master of lore and can take 10 on any Knowledge skill check that he has ranks in. A venturer can choose not to take 10 and can instead roll normally. In addition, once per day, the bard can take 20 on any Knowledge skill check as a standard action. He can use this ability one additional time per day for every six levels he possesses beyond 3rd, to a maximum of three times per day at 15th level.

Cautious Explorer (Ex) : At 3rd level, a Venturer has honed his natural senses and intuition to perceive that which others normally can't see. When within 10' of a hidden object, secret door or trap or within 100' of an ambush, he may sense the hidden danger or passage with a simple perception check. The GM may give the player the chance to roll, or just set a base difficulty and assume the player is taking ten. Detecting a trap ahead of time prevents the character from falling into traps and as such gives him a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. Detecting an ambush means the character will not be surprised (flat-footed) and knowing there is a threat ahead may allow him to plan something else.

Intuitive Explorer: Upon reaching 7th level, the Venturer gains a +2 intuition bonus to perception checks when trying to detect secret doors, traps and ambushes. What more, the Venturer can now begin to sense objects hidden by magic (invisibility or illusion) when within 10', with a basic perception check. A successful perception check means the Venturer can see such invisible creatures or objects as translucent shapes, allowing the Venturer to easily discern the difference between visible, invisible, and ethereal creatures. A successful perception check against an illusion means the Venturer doubts the reality of the illusion, because he senses that there is something hidden within or behind it.

Experienced Explorer: When he reaches 11th level, the Venturer's Intuition bonus increases to a +4 to perception checks when trying to detect secret doors, traps and ambushes, and increases to +2 when detecting creatures or objects invisible or hidden by illusions.

Expert Explorer: When he reaches 15th level, the Venturer can automatically sense hidden dangers and passages. When within 10' of a hidden object, secret door or trap or when within 100' of an ambush, the Venturer automatically senses them. Also, the Venturer's Intuition bonus increases to +4 when detecting creatures or objects invisible or hidden by illusions.

Arcane Explorer: At 19th level, The Venturer is able to automatically detect hidden objects, secret doors and traps when within 20' of them. When within 200' of an ambush, he automatically senses the hidden danger. He also automatically senses objects hidden by magic (invisibility or illusion) when within 10'. He can see such invisible creatures or objects as translucent shapes, allowing the Venturer to easily discern the difference between visible, invisible, and ethereal creatures. The Venturer automatically doubts the reality of any illusion that is hiding objects or creatures, because he automatically senses that there is something hidden within or behind it.

Venturer's Talents

Every 2 levels a Venturer may select a new Venturer's Talent. These represent the wide variety of experiences the Venturer attains along his travels. A Venturer selects from the following list of talents and if a talent requires a prerequisite that talent must be taken first. Unless otherwise noted in the Talent's description, he can't take a Venturer's Talent more than once. Alternatively, the Venturer may use his Venturer Talent to take any feat he has the prerequisites for in the feat list, but he may do this no more than 4 times.

-Arcane Intuition
-Clever Explorer
-Combat Feats
-Defensive Roll
-Evasion
-Fast Movement
-Familiar
-Heraldic Knowledge
-Hide Tracks
-Improved Evasion
-Improved Uncanny Dodge

-Obscure Knowledge
-Polyglot
-Savant
-Streetsmarts
-Track
-Trailblazer
-Trap Sense
-Trapfinder
-Uncanny Dodge
-World Traveler

Arcane Intuition (Ex): The character gains a +4 bonus on saving throws made against illusions and a +4 bonus on caster level checks and saving throws to see through disguises and protections against divination (such as magic aura, misdirection, and nondetection).

Bravery (Ex): The character gains a +1 bonus on Will saves against fear. If taken multiple times this bonus stacks.

Clever Explorer (Ex): The character gains a bonus equal to half his Venturer class level on Disable Device and Perception checks. He can disable intricate and complex devices in half the normal amount of time (minimum 1 round) and open a lock as a standard action. At 6th level, a Venturer can take 10 on Disable Device checks, even if distracted or endangered, and can disarm magical traps. This ability stacks with similar abilities from other classes.

Combat Feats (Ex): The Venturer faces many dangers in his journeys and as such he is often forced to fight for his life. Eventually he attains great skill, usually in one particular weapon he favors. A character with this feat may purchase combat feats as if he were a fighter of 4 levels lower than his levels in Venturer (An 8th level Venturer could purchase Combat Feats as if he were a 4th level Fighter, such as Weapon Specialization).

Defensive Roll (Ex): The Venturer can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage from it than he otherwise would. Once per day, when he would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), the Venturer can attempt to roll with the damage. To use this ability, the Venturer must attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC = damage dealt). If the save succeeds, he takes only half damage from the blow; if it fails, he takes full damage. He must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute his defensive roll—if he is denied his Dexterity bonus to AC, he can't use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Reflex save for half damage, the Venturer’s evasion ability does not apply to the defensive roll.

Evasion (Ex): The character can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the character is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless character does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Familiar (Ex): The characer has acquired an exotic pet along his travels, a faithful companion that has become his closest friend and ally. This could be a monkey, maccaw, or any other such exotic creature. The animal gains abilities as a wizard's familiar, using the Venturer's level as his wizard level.

Fast Movement (Ex): The character's land speed is faster than the norm for her race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when she is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor, and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the character's speed because of any load carried or armor worn. This bonus stacks with any other bonuses to the character's land speed.

Heraldic Knowledge (Ex): The venturer has spent time in a culture that depends on heraldry. As such he gains a +1 bonus on Diplomacy, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), and Knowledge (nobility) checks. Also, once per day, he can also reroll a check against one of these skills, though he must take the result of the second roll even if it is worse. He can make such a reroll one additional time per 5 levels (5th, 10th, 15th, 20th).

Hide Tracks (Ex): The character has learned to obscure his trail in natural surroundings and terrain where he may leave a track (dust, mud, etc…). He applies half his Venturer level as a penalty to the person attempting to track him.

Improved Evasion (Ex): This ability requires the Venturer to have Evasion. This ability works like evasion, except that while the Venturer still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, he henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless Venturer does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): The Venturer must have Uncanny Dodge to take this ability. The Venturer can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the Venturer by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has Venturer levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Jack-of-All-Trades I (Ex): The Venturer can use any skill, even if the skill normally requires him to be trained. The Venturer must be at least 10th level to take this Talent.

Jack-of-All-Trades II (Ex): The Venturer considers all skills to be class skills. The Venturer must be at least 16th level to take this and must already have taken Jack-of-All-Trades I.

Jack-of-All-Trades III (Ex): The Venturer can take 10 on any skill check, even if it is not normally allowed. The Venturer must be at least 19th level to take this and must already have taken Jack-of-All-Trades II.

Obscure Knowledge (Ex): A Venturer knows many strange and obscure bits of knowledge from his history of curiosity, study and exploration. At any point a player may request permission to make a Knowledge check to see if he has some bit of knowledge on a particular subject. If there isn't an appropriate Knowledge skill, he may make an Intelligence Check + 1/2 his level to see if he knows something. The GM may deny or ignore this result if he feels it doesn't suit the campaign or story. Additionally the GM may also make a secret check on the player's behalf to see if the character may know something about a specific topic.

Polyglot (Ex): The Venturer spends his time traveling foreign lands and trying to decipher ancient dialects. He has learned to decipher obscure texts and long lost languages. As such he adds half his Venturer level to all linguistics checks.

Savant (Ex): The Venturer has a natural talent for succeeding at everything he tries. He's no expert, but he's passable in all skills. As such he can take 10 on any skill check, even if it is not normally allowed.

Streetsmarts (Ex): Every city has its back alleys, black markets, gangs and players. This character has learned to identify these and gains a bonus equal to half his Venturer level on Bluff, Disguise, Knowledge (local), and Sleight of Hand checks, Diplomacy or Intimidate checks made to influence crowds, and Diplomacy checks to gather information (minimum +1). This ability only applies once the Venturer has spent at least three days exploring the streets of the city and becoming familiar with its people and places. This must only be done again if there have been significant changes the city since the last time the character was there.

Track (Ex): The character adds half his Venturer level (minimum 1) to Survival skill checks made to follow tracks.

Trailblazer (Ex): The character knows how to move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. Thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion, however, still affect him.

Trapfinder (Ex): The Venturer adds 1/2 his Venturer level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). The Venturer can disable magical traps with a Disable Device skill check.

Trapsense (Ex): The Venturer gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. If this talent is taken a consecutive time, these bonuses increase by +1, up to a maximum of +6. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack-

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): The character can react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does he lose his Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. He still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A Venturer with this ability can still lose his Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against him. If a Venturer already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

World Traveler (Ex): A Venturer who is a world traveler gains an additional +1 on all Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nature), and Linguistics checks. Also, once per day, he can reroll a check against one of these skills per day, but must take the result of the second roll even if it is worse. He can make one an additional reroll per 5 levels (5th, 10th, 15th, 20th).

Grand Venturer: At 20th level, the Venturer may either take 2 Venturer Talents or one Grand Venturer Talent (listed below).

Grand Venturer Talents:

Slippery Mind (Su): At 20th level, the Venturer gains the ability to wriggle free from magical effects that would otherwise control or compel him. If a Treasure Hunter with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails his saving throw, he can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. He gets only this one extra chance to succeed on his saving throw.

Archetypes:

Duervan Treasure Hunter:

Gold and silver. Mithril and platinum. Rare gemstones. These things are only of material value. It is the works of art crafted by their ancestors that hold the Duervan Treasure Hunter in awe. Be they finely crafted armor, ancient weapons, intricately engraved jewelry or gem-encrusted chalices, true works of art are worth hundreds, even thousands of times the material costs put into them. And their cultural value is truly priceless. A seemingly endless number of such items have been lost in the countless cataclysms and wars that have rocked the world of Naeja. And it is the re-acquisition of these lost items that is the domain of the Treasure Hunter. He will go to any length to retrieve them, if not for their deep history, then for the sheer love he holds for their exquisite craftsmanship and his lust to hold them in his own hands.
Duervan Treasure Hunters combine a vast knowledge of lore, both ancient and modern, an understanding of elemental magics and a deep experience in delving into dungeons and lost ruins to achieve their goals. They are held in the highest of regard among their fellow duervar, for it is they who carry on the rich history and traditions of their people.

Role: Duervan Treasure Hunters are capable fighters, but their preference for light armors leaves them vulnerable in battle. They have access to a number of elemental arcane spells, though their diverse training prevents them from excelling as spellcasters. Where a Treasure Hunter really shines is in his ability to detect and disarm duervan traps, avoid pitfalls, and find his way around duervan ruins.

Abilities:
The Duervan Treasure Hunter gives up his ability to learn spells from multiple sources of magic and his ability to scribe scrolls in exchange for learning Duervan Rune Magic and being able to cast such arcane magic in any armor.

Dwarven Rune Magic: Duervan Treasure Hunters learn spells through duervan runes. Duervan magic depends upon secret runes etched in rare gems, stones, and metals, and invoked with ancient words of power. As such all somatic components are replaced with the displaying of a rune, all material components are replaced with runic talismans, and all verbal components are replaced with words of power. This means the Duervan Treasure Hunter can cast duervan rune magic while wearing any armor and using a shield without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. A multiclass duervan treasurer hunter still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes. The downside is that the Duervan Treasure Hunter can only learn magic from Duervan Runes. They cannot learn spells from any other source.

Runes: A Duervan Treasure Hunter does not have a spell book, but instead must have a rune prepared for each spell he can cast. He must prepare his spells with these runes each day, spending time focusing arcane energies into them and practicing his invocations. Only two spells do not require a rune, read magic and detect magic, which all Venturers can prepare from memory.

like other Duervan arcane casters, the character must engrave runes into a suitable piece of armor, gem, jewelry or weapon. These runes are not destroyed upon use, but rather act as a focus. So long as the duervar is in contact with the focus and knows the invocation (if required), he may cast the spell associated with it (assuming he hasn’t used all of his allotted spells of that level for the day). If he loses it, he may not cast the spell associated with it until he creates a replacement. Replacing lost runes is a long, expensive and difficult process (see Stone Lore).

A Duervan Treasure Hunter begins play knowing 4 0-level spells (two of which must be Read Magic and Detect Magic). Thereafter he does not automatically learn new spells. Instead he must attain these spells (the runes and their invocations) through discovery and study. A Duervan Treasure Hunter cannot create new runes. A Duervan Treasure Hunter cannot learn spells from any other source. That is, they can only learn duervan runes.

Duervan Historian:

Venturer Talents:
Resiliency (Ex): Beginning at 4th level, once per day, a Treasure Hunter can gain a number of temporary hit points equal to the his level. Activating this ability is an immediate action that can only be performed when he is brought to below 0 hit points. This ability can be used to prevent him from dying. These temporary hit points last for 1 minute. If the Treasure Hunter’s hit points drop below 0 due to the loss of these temporary hit points, he falls unconscious and is dying as normal.

Chronicler

Role:

Chronicles: The character must keep a chronicle of their adventures on them at all times to be able to reference it as needed. Without this chronicle the player loses his Loremaster and Obscure Knowledge abilities. A character may have multiple copies of his chronicle, but should all of his copies be lost to him replacing it from memory takes 1 week per level of the Chronicler. The Chronicler benefits from reading his chronicles to refresh his memory of details from past experiences. As such the character must spend at least one hour each day reviewing his chronicles. If he does not he loses his special Chronicler abilities.

Abilities: The Chronicler gives up his Explorer's Intution and is required to keep and maintain a Chronicle in exchange for the ability to Learn from His Mistakes, Learn from books he has read, and scribe scrolls sooner.

No Intuition: The Chronicler does not gain the Explorer' Intuition abilities.

Learn from your Mistakes (Ex): The character can draw upon past mistakes to improve his chances at any action. If a Chronicler has failed at an action previously he may, after taking his notes in his chronicle and reviewing his mistakes for one full hour, attempt it again with a +1 bonus (or +5%). At least one hour must pass between the first and second attempt. The Chronicler may make additional attempts up to a number of times equal to his level. Each time he fails, the next attempt increases by +1 (+5%), to a limit equal to his level. However, after the second attempt, the Chronicler must wait a full day between each additional attempt. Once again, after making his notes in his chronicle and reviewing them for one full hour (the usual hour required of the Chronicler), he may attempt the action again with the stacked bonuses. Once the Chronicler succeeds the bonus resets to 0.

I read it in a book (Ex): The Chronicler has the unique ability to learn special skills and abilities just by reading about them. The Chronicler studies the text, contemplates the ability, and makes notes about it in his chronicle. Once per level he can attempt to learn any spell, skill, or character ability just by reading about it. That is, the book from which the character reads doesn't have to teach the ability, just describe it. The character could learn the lightning bolt spell just by reading a story about a wizard casting a lightning bolt. The chance to learn a spell is the same as normal. The chance to learn a skill requires an Intelligence check with a difficulty of 15. The character is considered to have learned the skill but must still spend a skill point on it to gain the skill. The character may also, if he so chooses, elect to fill a Venturer Talent slot with a special ability of another class, if he reads about it in a book. The ability must not be of a higher level than the character's level as a Venturer. If the ability increases in levels, the Venturer only gains the lowest level benefit of the ability. Learning higher level bonuses requires another use of a Venturer Talent. The Venturer must get the GM's approval for the ability to be taken. If it unclear if the Venturer is high enough level to take the ability, assume he is not, and therefore he cannot take it. The use of any of these spells, skills or abilities requires the Chronicler to have studied his chronicles that day.

Scribe Scrolls (Ex): The Chronicler can begin scribing scrolls at 1st level.

NOTES

Savant, Factotum, Renaissance Man, Generalist, Versant, Learned Man, Jack-of-all-trades, Man-of-all

-Jack-of-All-Trades (Ex): At 5th level, the Venturer can use any skill, even if the skill normally requires him to be trained. At 13th level, the Venturer considers all skills to be class skills. At 19th level, the venturer can take 10 on any skill check, even if it is not normally allowed.

v4 by AminusAminus, 19 Apr 2014 05:54

OLD NOTES:

DEFINITION

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Venturer?s=t

ven·ture [ven-cher]
aphetic variant of aventurer or adventurer
noun
1. an undertaking involving uncertainty as to the outcome, especially a risky or dangerous one: a mountain-climbing venture.
2. a business enterprise or speculation in which something is risked in the hope of profit; a commercial or other speculation.
3. the money, ship, cargo, merchandise, or the like, on which risk is taken in a business enterprise or speculation.
4. Obsolete . hazard or risk.
verb (used with object), ven·tured, ven·tur·ing.
5. to expose to hazard; risk: to venture one's fortune; to venture one's life.
6. to take the risk of; brave the dangers of: to venture a voyage into space.
7. to undertake to express, as when opposition or resistance appears likely to follow; be bold enough; dare: I venture to say that you are behaving foolishly.
8. to take the risk of sending.
verb (used without object), ven·tured, ven·tur·ing.
9. to make or embark upon a venture; dare to go: He ventured deep into the jungle.
10. to take a risk; dare; presume: to venture on an ambitious program of reform.
11. to invest venture capital.
adjective
12. of or pertaining to an investment or investments in new businesses: a venture fund.
Idioms
13. at a venture, according to chance; at random: A successor was chosen at a venture.
Origin:
1400–50; late Middle English,

NOTES

Savant, Factotum, Renaissance Man, Generalist, Versant, Learned Man, Jack-of-all-trades, Man-of-all

-Jack-of-All-Trades (Ex): At 5th level, the Venturer can use any skill, even if the skill normally requires him to be trained. At 13th level, the Venturer considers all skills to be class skills. At 19th level, the venturer can take 10 on any skill check, even if it is not normally allowed.
Table: Venturer Spells Per Day

Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st 3 1
2nd 4 2
3rd 4 3
4th 4 3 1
5th 4 4 2
6th 5 4 3
7th 5 4 3 1
8th 5 4 4 2
9th 5 5 4 3
10th 5 5 4 3 1
11th 5 5 4 4 2
12th 5 5 5 4 3
13th 5 5 5 4 3 1
14th 5 5 5 4 4 2
15th 5 5 5 5 4 3
16th 5 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th 5 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th 5 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th 5 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th 5 5 5 5 5 5 5

Table: Venturer Spells Per Day

Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st 0
2nd 1
3rd 1
4th 1 0
5th 1 1
6th 2 1
7th 2 1 0
8th 2 1 1
9th 2 2 1
10th 3 2 1 0
11th 3 2 1 1
12th 3 2 2 1
13th 3 3 2 1 0
14th 4 3 2 1 1
15th 4 3 2 2 1
16th 4 3 3 2 1
17th 4 4 3 2 1
18th 5 4 3 2 2
19th 5 4 3 3 2
20th 5 4 4 3 3

Scribe Scroll: At 4th level the Venturer gains the ability to Scribe Scrolls.

Scribe Scroll

Factotum: The Venturer is a student-of-the-arts, an adept-of-all-skills, adroit-in-all-disciplines, a learned-fellow, a renaissance-man, a jack-of-all-trades and master-of-none. He studies whatever written materials, spoken legends, and hidden lore he can come upon. He is intrigued by all new skills and talents, and tries his hand at all new trades he encounters. As such he gains particular benefits when it comes to skills, but to use these benefits he must spend at least one hour every day practicing his various skills.
Benefits:
The Venturer can use all skills untrained.
The Venturer adds half his level to knowledge skill checks in those he has ranks in.
The Venturer can select one new Class Skill every level.
Penalties:
The Venturer must spend 1 hour each day practicing his various skills.
The Venturer may never have more than 15 ranks in any skill, as he can master no single skill.

Note on concept development by AminusAminus, 18 Apr 2014 03:05
Re: Name change?
PhoebusPhoebus 10 Jan 2014 22:55
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Orestias

I could ask the same question of names from several regions during that era. You can still distinguish the distinct differences between Greek, Latin, Gallic, Persian, etc., names. You can even distinguish between the names that are Greek and the "Greek-ish" names that Greeks bestowed on non-Greeks for the purposes of making it easier on themselves to pronounce them.

At any rate, change is inevitable when one transitions from a home-brew campaign to a published world. A lot of that change occurs when you try to breathe life into different regions, cultures, etc., so as to make them believable to a player. I'll grant you that many gamers will never appreciate the minutiae that designers and authors apply to make their creations "real". I think it's still worth it, though. At the very least, you'll never have anyone asking why two different cultures from two different races with little (if any) shared connections have similar-sounding names. :)

Re: Name change? by PhoebusPhoebus, 10 Jan 2014 22:55

How many Greek names don't end in "s"?

Re: Name change? by TergannonTergannon, 10 Jan 2014 12:56
Re: Name change?
PhoebusPhoebus 31 Dec 2013 23:10
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Orestias

My understanding is that we were trying to get away from Gelvani names with an -us ending precisely because it made them so Roman (and thus, Ronan and Parthan) sounding. At any rate, I would recommend against Greek names and words for Gelvani use - otherwise, doesn't this create unnecessary similarities with Parthan names?

Re: Name change? by PhoebusPhoebus, 31 Dec 2013 23:10
Re: Name change?
AminusAminus 31 Dec 2013 18:24
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Orestias

Hey Man,

Actually, I am trying to make it sound significantly different than Orestes. Orestius was Ryan's original spelling for the name. -us is actually a standard suffix for gelvani names, but I thought perhaps the Orestias sounded better. It is the original greek phonetic for "of the mountains" and I thought if we're going to use a greek name why not use an actual greek word.

The name of Arvanis being changed to Aelvanis is to differentiate it from the Forgotten Realms term for the elf outer plane. The two realms are dramatically different in many ways and I think it's time to change the name. Aelf is the old english spelling for elf, so I though Aelvanis would work well.

What do you think?

Re: Name change? by AminusAminus, 31 Dec 2013 18:24
Name change?
PhoebusPhoebus 31 Dec 2013 06:56
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Orestias

I believe Orestias was once known as Orestius, correct? I ask only because I noticed Arvanis had been changed as well.

Orestias doesn't sound significantly different Orestius, and I'm assuming the issue with the latter is that it sounds more Ronan/Parthan than Gelvani. If you're set on changing his name, my recommendation is to go with something that sounds Gelvani and pull a card out of real history: different cultures change names of people from other cultures to suit their language. That's how you get Phoebus, Hector, Achilles, Priam, Ptolemy, Alexander, etc., all of which sound completely different from the Greek pronunciations: FEE-vos, EK-to-ras (with a flat "o"), a-hee-LEY-as, PREE-a-mos, pto-le-MAY-os, a-LEX-an-dros, etc.

So maybe Orestian, Orestien, Orestin, etc., would be better?

Just thoughts.

Name change? by PhoebusPhoebus, 31 Dec 2013 06:56

What do you mean?

Re: Cavalier? by AminusAminus, 03 Oct 2013 03:04

Still invisible?

Cavalier? by TergannonTergannon, 22 Sep 2013 18:21

So, Phoebus and I just had a lengthy discussion by google Talk. This was the name we decided on. Regan, let us know what you think:

Phoebus is online.
Kenneth: Wow, you are on Google chat? Or is this just a ghost?

Phoebus: It's weird. Sometimes the government computers let it load; sometimes they don't!

Kenneth: Sounds like how all government is run, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't

Phoebus: Yeah. They claim they won't let us use those programs for computer safety… but the patches they load on our computers make them run slower than any virus-infected one I've ever owned!

Kenneth: LOL

Kenneth: So, I feel like we are at a point where we need to make "orcs" more interesting in the campaign world, not just generic bad guys

Kenneth: I agree, or should say already agreed, that Orcs should have some nominal reason for their name…hehe….so, an etymology of what they call themselves.
IE: The Catawba Indians call themselves Catawba, because it means People of the River.
So, I thought perhaps, People of War or People of the Forest made sense.

Ig is the short prefix for a forest, so maybe use that in some part or way

Phoebus: Perhaps. But if your intent is to have "orc" as slang based on the actual name (much like "elf" could plausibly derived from "Gelvani"), then we should be wary of steering too far from the original.

Kenneth: I agree. Thought I was thinking that the Gelvani (or Telani) word for Orc would sound much like it and that the Orc would may be totally different.

Phoebus: Yeah, but "elf" is Ronan and Gelvani is Telani. Thus, I figured we'd follow the same convention for orc: it being Ronan slang based on the "orcish" proper.

Kenneth: Sure, we can do that.
I was thinking that way when I came up with Vornikar. Vorn-ik-ar. Vor-kar…Vork…Ork
Though "Vor" or "Vorn" means war
I was thinking that Ikar might could be a title for Lord

Sent at 6:35 PM on Sunday
Phoebus: That could work.
Hell, Vorkar could be warrior, and synonymous with "person" in the orcish language - as in a "person with franchise/meaning", as opposed to a non-warrior, who is worthless.

Kenneth: Interesting. That makes me wonder about the word "Viking"

Phoebus: Exactly.

Kenneth: Here:
Scandinavian pirate, 1807, vikingr; modern spelling attested from 1840. The word is a historical revival; it was not used in Middle English, but it was revived from Old Norse vikingr "freebooter, sea-rover, pirate, viking," which usually is explained as meaning properly "one who came from the fjords," from vik "creek, inlet, small bay" (cf. Old English wic, Middle High German wich "bay," and second element in Reykjavik). But Old English wicing and Old Frisian wizing are almost 300 years older, and probably derive from wic "village, camp" (temporary camps were a feature of the Viking raids), related to Latin vicus "village, habitation" (see villa).

Phoebus: Nice.

Kenneth: The connection between the Norse and Old English words is still much debated. The period of Viking activity was roughly 8c. to 11c. In the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, the raiding armies generally were referred to as þa Deniscan "the Danes," while those who settled in England were identified by their place of settlement. Old Norse viking (n.) meant "freebooting voyage, piracy;" one would "go on a viking."
So, I guess the question for them would be, did they call themselves Vikings?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikings
Has some good references.

Phoebus: Looking…
It might take me a few minutes.
All the same, I like the Vorkar = warrior idea.

Kenneth: No worries. It basically says they called themselves Vikingers

Phoebus: You are Vorkar/proper orc so long as you can fight.
When one can no longer fight, he becomes "less" in the eyes of other orcs.

Kenneth: Right. So each group probably called themselves their own name (Barukar)

Phoebus: Strength/martial prowess = worth and status.

Kenneth: But when they face other races they are "Vorkars".

Phoebus: Lack thereof = chattel, victim.
I'm not sure I follow.
Vorkar is what they would call themselves. Orc is what Verosians would call them.

Kenneth: Well, think of it this way.
Do they call themselves as a race Vorkar, or is that what they call themselves in comparison to other races.
IE: most Native American cultural names just meant "The people" and the words for others were "non-people"

Phoebus: Let's not get too deep on this. Part of the whole "orc" theme is that they are neither wise nor smart (penalties on both). When you embody violence, war, brutality, etc., then it's very plausible that you're not too worried about proper etymology.
For all intents and purposes, they probably have the following:
Vorkar
A word that equates to victim or slave for other orcs who can't fight.

Kenneth: Well, true, but for a historical sense it is nice to have a basis for the word.
I agree

Phoebus: And then a very broad, probably religious term for their overall race.
Their words for any other race are probably entirely slang.

Kenneth: So, you think we still need another term for their overall race? You're probably right, though it would be rarely used.

Phoebus: Unlike Ronan scholars and learned people, who almost certainly know the proper usage of Gelvani, Vorkar, etc., orcs could give a crap about what other races call themselves.
It's probably a word only their priests bother with.
Such as they are, at any rate.

Kenneth: Very good idea. A formal name for the race not widely known even amongst the orcs.

Phoebus: Probably because it doesn't even occur to them. Their existences are probably very day-to-day things, and are defined by personal status and glory gained by violence and imposing one's strength over his fellows.
This lack of focused identity is probably why they can't get things done.

Kenneth: In that I believe a longer harder to pronounce word would be fine.

Phoebus: Hence why Ilvanvolf and the Barukar were so important.

Kenneth: Igvanskergerim

Phoebus: Is the forest meaningful to them, or just incidental, though?

Kenneth: Very meaningful to them, their mother was the Titan of the Forests

Phoebus: Wouldn't the core theme be the titan they are descended from?
But we're now veering from the theme of war, which is actually central to them.

Kenneth: It's the main reason they and the elves war so much. The Orcs see the Elves as having stolen their lands.
Nah, both are central to them.

Phoebus: Yes, but the orcs were warlike before that.

Kenneth: I was thinking Igvanskeregrim could mean "Forest people who are the scourge of the world"
I'm just brainstorming

Sent at 6:55 PM on Sunday
Phoebus: I'm trying to avoid going down a road where we lose focus on what these guys are, which is a barbaric and brutal warrior race. Once we start getting into identities shaped by perceived injustices, we start losing that focus and identity. It becomes less of a clear-cut struggle between good and evil and more of a "nation vs. nation" clash, which is eminently more complex.

Kenneth: LOL
That's exactly the opossite of the direction I'm trying to go
I want there to be more than just good vs. evil. Yes, orcs are inherintly evil, but I want them to have a purpose for their directed brutality.
IE: Vikings attacked everyone, but sometimes they got into wars.

Phoebus: Yeah, but they do have a purpose. They're literally the descendants of a titan of war. It's built into their blood, but they're also corrupt and broken.

Kenneth: Oh yeah. But I built their backstory to include the forests as their incestral home, the Gelvani settling there, and conflicts beginning there.
Still, It's only a part of who they are. War is much bigger.
The Norse were warriors, the sea was only part of who they were.
So, what are some other options for the name? Maybe put war in there well ahead of a mention of forest?

Phoebus: Vorkarvansig? Warrior-children of the wood?

Kenneth: I do like that.
Perhaps, though, we shouldn't use "Vorkar" entirely in this name.

Phoebus: At some point, you're going to have full nouns in there, though.
Especially when you're dealing with the more blunt/crude races.

Kenneth: True, but we said "Vor" meant "war", and "Vorkar" meant "warrior".
I'm just thinking it might be better with something like…
Vornavansig
Where "Vor" means war "na" means "of the" (reverse subject/object) and "vans" means children (born of).
"ig" means forest.

Phoebus: Not enough hard vowels. ;)

Kenneth: LOL
True, so how about Vorkanvansig
bah, I like the sound of Vorkarvansig better

Phoebus: Let me put it this way. They're orcs. How many adjective and noun forms do you think they have? ;)
Plus, I forgot to mention this earlier, but while a "soft" word like "na" works for the Gelvani, it doesn't for orcs - in my humble opinion.

Kenneth: Though, should it be "zig" instead?

Phoebus: Vanz = children

Kenneth: well, it's hardly an important part of the word, but to me it make sense. That is "na" is used in all cases were "of the" would fit (either direction).
Not important though
So,
"Vorkarvanzig"

Phoebus: Yeah, but I'm not sure I like the elf-orc commonality. ;)
Sounds good!

Kenneth: Oh, did we use that for the elves?

Phoebus: Yes. :)

Kenneth: My mistake, forget that then

Phoebus: No worries!

Kenneth: Ok, so its settled. "Vorkanvazig" and "Vorkar"
Sorry
"Vorkarvanzig"
not easy to type

Phoebus: Hahaha!

Re: Orcs, what to call 'em? by AminusAminus, 28 Jul 2013 23:15

Possible terms for "Orc"

I've read up on the origin of the word Orc and found that it comes from various sources but seems to be commonly a term referring to a form of giant monstrous man. Since it has no specific origin in any mythology or language, was used in various Old English, English and German texts, I do not see a reason we can't keep it as the common term used for Orcs in our campaign.

That said, it doesn't make sense for Orcs to call themselves that. Perhaps Orog is the Gelvani term from which Orc is derived.

So, here are some possible alternatives I've come up with:

Vornamen: "Vor"=War, "na"=of (which is of with the subject at the end), "men"=men
I don't really like this, though, as it seems too long and not as harsh sounding as their other words. Also the term "men" should probably not originate in their language.

Vorigaren: "Vor"=War "Ig"=forest "aren"=men
In this we decide the orc word for "people" or "men" would be "aren". I like this but it is again kind of long.

Voruk: "Vor"=war "uk"=men
In this we decide the orc word for "people" or "men" would be "uk". This is good because is implies that "orc" comes from this word, but it clearly has its own origin. I like it also because it sounds like the word for a type of wart "veruca". However, it does sound, perhaps, too much like orc and defeats the purpose of getting away from that word. Also, it sounds a lot like Baruk.

Let's try some with a different etymology.

"h'lewd" (type: root word; origin: proto-indo-european, h'lewd; Definition: people;
Pronounced: h (aspirated)-loo-duh )
Other words of this origin:
ljudi is russian for people
liudiz is german for person

I suggest we use this simple root word for "people" and add other orcish words.

H'lewdvor: "H'Lwed"=people, "vor"=war

Ignhlewd: "ig"=forest, hlewd="people"
Souds too much like Igloo

Hlwedvig
Sounds too much like Ludwig

Not liking that format much…let's try some others…

Re: Orcs, what to call 'em? by AminusAminus, 26 Jul 2013 01:02

Names of Orc Deities, old and new

Vornakar + Asheba

OLD NAME NEW NAME TITLE DESCRIPTIONS
Gruumsh Ganuush Dark Eye
Luthic The Mother
Ilneval Ilvanskerge The Elf Woe Bringer
Yurtus of The Dead

Gruumsh + Luthic

OLD NAME NEW NAME TITLE DESCRIPTIONS
Baghtru Brutgar The Brute
Falghtru Falghtru
Garnak
Ballagar
Tarkov

Ilneval + Luthic

OLD NAME NEW NAME TITLE DESCRIPTIONS
Volgra
Ulgra
Magra
Gishnak
Valak

Gruumsh + Volgra

OLD NAME NEW NAME TITLE DESCRIPTIONS
Belgrak
Nuulgra

Ilneval + Nuulgra

OLD NAME NEW NAME TITLE DESCRIPTIONS
Ildrigox
Zagra

Yurtus + Luthic

OLD NAME NEW NAME TITLE DESCRIPTIONS
Gamorgh Gamorgh The Defiler
Shargaas

Baghtru + Magra

OLD NAME NEW NAME TITLE DESCRIPTIONS
Barakath
Varaketh

Garnak + Ulgra

OLD NAME NEW NAME TITLE DESCRIPTIONS
Vaygrik
Igna

Valak + Zargra

OLD NAME NEW NAME TITLE DESCRIPTIONS
Gorkaal
Agra

Agra + Human

OLD NAME NEW NAME TITLE DESCRIPTIONS
Sha-Lok Shalok The Destroyer
Re: Orcs, what to call 'em? by AminusAminus, 25 Jul 2013 18:29

Hi Guys,

As we know, Orc is pretty much a universal term to describe your run-of-the-mill man like monstrosity who seems to love killing more than life itself. That said, I've spent a great deal of time detailing my orcs to be more than just PC fodder. I've given them a rich origin story and religion, detailed their culture, child-rearing, and even their communities. Most of this, though, isn't on this website yet and I've got a hankering to get it on here.

So, I've started to put some of it out here. One of the first things I want to do, though, is eliminate any names/personas used by other campaigns.

Thus references to Gruumsh, Baghtru, Ilneval et all will be eliminated. Instead I want to create unique individuals who are similar but have their own personalities, descriptions and driving goals that are similar enough to keep the story intact while creating a truly original religion. Of course, those giant-lords/lesser-titans are all dead now, but it is important to detail them. I will be offering some ideas and I am asking that you offer any good ideas you have. Let's be original , so feel free to come up with crazy ideas. Think there should have been an orc lord of dysentery? Ok! That said, thought he main big-baddies (lesser-titans) are long gone, there's no reason lesser beings (nominally giant-lords) can't still be around.

First and foremost of all of this, though, is the key question of….what do orcs call themselves?

We've said that "Orc" is the human/duervan word derived from "Orog" which we decided was the Gelvani word for Orc. However, that name really comes from D&D and I don't feel a need to keep using it. I'm perfectly fine with a variation on that. What more, Orcs probably never called themselves that. Gelvani are Elves, but that's the word humans gave them. Duervar are Dwarves, but again that's the human name. So…what should Orcs call themselves?

Their creator was the Titan of War, Vornakar, who returned as "Nalghvorn". Perhaps we could come up with a term that references him?

See Vornakar
See Orokar
See Orcs
See The Prophecy of Nalghivorn

What are your thoughts?

Orcs, what to call 'em? by AminusAminus, 24 Jul 2013 23:46
Re: Shanothyr
AminusAminus 04 Jun 2013 18:32
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Mirivia

Thanks,

What are y'all's thoughts on the trees?

Ken

Re: Shanothyr by AminusAminus, 04 Jun 2013 18:32
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